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AIC: Can you tell us about the beginning of ASWAT, how and when did this idea start? 

Rauda Morcos (RM): I have talked a lot about this. ASWAT began as an e-mailing net in 2001, and after some time we decided to have a meeting. In 2003, we had our first meeting with nine women. That was the starting point for the group, and I was among this nine women. After several meetings, we realized how important this was and that in order to serve properly the lesbian Palestinian community, we decided that we had to start organizing. The problem came as to how we would do that: we thought at first to begin under the wings of another organization, but then we thought that the natural place for us was the Palestinian community. 

The other natural place was of course, with the women. We reached Kayan (a feminist organization in Haifa, north of Israel) and finally we ended up joining Kayan. 

AIC: The beginnings were very hard? 

RM: We joined Kayan officially in September 2002. The group decided that they wanted to choose a coordinator that took care of the organization. We weren’t many back then, but the group decided that they wanted me to be in charge of all this. The truth is that I didn't have any idea how to start; I had never done anything like this before. 

In the beginning everything was volunteer, and Kayan helped us a lot, they gave all the necessary things to us, like equipment, an office. I started writing our vision and our purposes, our activities, and started contacting woman and lesbian friendly organizations, until finally in 2004 we received our first funding from Global Fund for Women and Mama Cash. 

Back then, we had the same vision that we have now, we want to reach the Palestinian women, and also the Israeli and International community. We want to grow as a group and soon we will become 15 in the organization. We want to help the ten percent of the gay Palestinians. 

AIC: The ten percent? 

RM: Yes, by statistics, in every community there is a ten percent of homosexuals, and of course, the Palestinians are not going to be different.

AIC: Do you think that it is more difficult to be gay in Muslim society, especially being a woman? 

RM: Well, I don't think that it is easy to be gay in any part of the world, but westerners associate Arabs with being primitive, and of course, homophobic. Most of the communities in the world, Western and Eastern, are patriarchal, and this equals homophobia. 

Look at Bush, he leads one of the most influential countries in the western world, and I believe that he is one the most homophobic, sexist and racist men that exists. Think of Spain, European, but there is not a single lesbian organization there. 

Going back to the USA, and all their rights and freedom, do you know that there is a lot of gay people who are killed every year? Every year, and all they did was to be gay. But people don't want to hear about that, they want to keep on thinking of the North American gay capital, San Francisco and they don't want to know about the rest that is happening. 

Even in Amsterdam there are "gay raids," and it is also supposed to be an open minded place. So when you ask me this, I have to say that I don't think it depends whether you are gay in the West or the East, I think it is most religions. If they want to use the religion as an excuse to say we are more intolerant with homosexuality, I will tell them the same. The Pope doesn't recognize homosexuality, and what is more, he condemns it. 

I hate that the West judges us because of our religion, because I know they use it as a weapon against us. Besides, the lifestyle of the West says nothing to me, and we don't want to imitate them. We have to find the way to reach our people, who have very different backgrounds than those of other countries.

AIC: You are the first Palestinian woman that made public that she was a lesbian. Can you explain how it was for you "coming out of the closet"?

RM: Wow! Well, I thought that I couldn't be gay in my community, basically because of the media that had fixed these stereotypes on my mind. Also me, as a Palestinian, listened to the media talking about my people, and it was also hard because I knew I was the first one, and of course, without precedents it is more difficult. I had no idea how it would be, but also I have always been very independent,  I went away from home to live by my own for many years, but when I made it public I had gone back to live with my parents.

What I have to say about how it was in the beginning is that I felt naked. Everybody was looking at me and analyzing me. But then I realized it was good, because I had a lot of different reactions from the people not only in my environment but also from the street. Before I said it out loud, people just though about it, or made quiet comments, but once it was public, they felt free to approach me and ask me questions, or even express their dislike. I was a bit overwhelmed at first, but now I think it was really good, to be able to talk about it openly.

Even my grandmother, who is 85 years old, approached me and asked me: “What is this thing that they say you are an ‘Elisabet?’ They tell me it is something very bad" [She starts laughing] My grandma had understood this from the word in Arabic, “lesbit” that someone had told her! I found it hilarious, and I was really surprised at how well she reacted when I explained it to her. She said: “Ah, well, it is not that bad! Sometimes it is better not to get married.” If we didn't have all this prefixed stereotypes, like my grandmother who never heard about this or saw it on TV, I think everyone would react the same way.

Also with my parents, at first it was a huge scandal for them, until I could sit with them and talk and explain it to them. Later, after I had finished explaining, it was not a problem anymore. When you look at it in a different way, it stops being a problem.

AIC: And relating with issue of the occupation, does ASWAT have a program for it? What is the opinion of ASWAT about this? 

RM: We believe everything is political, our nationality and our gender, that is what we are. We don't have an agenda about this, we don't work with this unless it affects gay people. If there is a demonstration against the occupation sponsored by a women's organization we will cosponsor it, but we will not start a demonstration about this. 

When they wanted the World Parade to be in Jerusalem, we refused, even though many said that we were losing a great opportunity. We believed that you can not do this sort of event in a country at war, where also many minorities would not be able to participate too. At that time too, during the summer of last year with the war in Lebanon, one of our partners was Helem, a lesbian organization from Lebanon.

AIC: Tell us about your activities in ASWAT. 

RM: We hold meetings every month, in the North of Israel, the South and Nazareth. We are currently serving 30 women and we do courses all year round, as well as a hot line open twenty four hours. We work training people that will help us in our activities, such as teaching what homosexuality is and creating a favorable opinion. We also publish material every three months in Arabic. 

AIC: Do you have something to say to the international gay community? 

RM: I think our fight is part of the international struggle and is very important to know the differences as well as the things we have in common, because I firmly believe that together we can really make a better world.

To see more about the organization, ASWAT: Palestinian Gay Women, click here.